Getting Published: With an Agent vs Without an Agent PART 2

Okay so yesterday I spoke with Robin Mellom about the process of getting published WITH an agent.

Today I'm talking with Shirley Marr about the process of getting published WITHOUT an agent. I actually met Shirley the week before I started my placement with Black Dog Books, her publisher. It was some bizarre yet awesome coincidence.

This is Shirley

There's an awful lot of emphasis these days on the importance of having an agent in order to get your book into publishers hands. And it's true, it's pretty difficult when most publishers don't accept submissions that have NOT come through an agent.

Shirley Marr, however is a non-agented success story.

Let's see how she did it, hmm?

Was it an active choice to NOT employ an agent, or did you not really think about it?

I was quite naive when I decided to submit Fury. I didn't really know what an agent was or did. I was under the mistaken illusion it was for "famous authors" that dealt with huge publishing houses. I thought I didn't need one if I only aimed for the small indie houses.

You said you aimed to target smaller publishers, why was that?

I was unsure of my manuscript, but I thought it had potential and I really liked it. In my mind I thought if I found someone small, that maybe I would get a more "hands on" approach. When I saw on their website their goal was to foster authors and not just find one-off novels, I thought that looked perfect. As it turned out, my path to publication with black dog books was sort of like a mentorship. Just what I was after.

How many publishers did you submit to before Black Dog?

Black Dog was my first and only one! I'm a rejection letter virgin.

[Do you remember me saying yesterday that you would hate Shirley, readers? This is why. She is an author who has never received a rejection letter. She’s not supposed to EXIST. Let’s all glare at her some, shall we?]

How awesome was "the call" and can you tell me about it?

I was so surprised. I got an email from Melissa Keil. Below is the exact email. It wasn't an immediate fairytale "yes" though, it was a series of talks and revisions (I had to submit a new draft) before it became that way. Nevertheless, the first contact letter was still exciting!

From: Melissa

Subject: Submission - 'Fury'

Date: 25 March 2009 9:17:16 AM AWDT

To: Shirley Marr

Hi Shirley

Thank you for submitting the sample of your young adult novel 'Fury'. I have to say that your cover letter was one of the better letters I have received (it was nice to read something with a smattering of personality, something strangely lacking from many submissions!)

I would be interested to read the rest of your novel - it would be great if you could submit it electronically, preferably as a word doc.

Looking forward to finishing your book - and ps, thank you for the chocolates, they were much appreciated by a sugar-starved editorial team.

Cheers,

Melissa Keil

editor

How did you find negotiations and contracts, going it alone. Did you struggle through it yourself or have a lawyer look it all over and negotiate?

It was easy because bdb is small, so there wasn't a lot of "red tape" - I met the publisher, Andrew Kelly, almost straight away. I did have a lawyer look at the contract and a few things were changed. A small publishing house meant I could negotiate everything with Andrew himself.

Do you feel you made the right choice for you?

For Fury, definitely yes.

Anything of particular interest happen/things you think were unique to your situation that you'd like to talk about?

My decision not to go with an agent was a personal choice. It felt right for the novel and for my situation back then as a writer. If I had felt I wanted to go international, or I felt I wanted to go with a bigger publisher, then having an agent would have been the better choice. I encourage people to go accordingly what their aspirations are.

Was Fury the first novel you wrote?

The first published novel yes, but I have written almost my entire lifetime so there are a lot of dodgy, unpublishable novels languishing on my hard drive!

How many times did you edit it?

About five times before I sent it out. With my bdb editor Melissa, it went through another four drafts.

Do you have a critique group/partner/go it alone?

I have one "beta" - Ee Von Loo. I trust her with my life. Nothing goes to bdb unless she's seen it first. I pay her in steak, alcohol and Pai Gow.

Were you on the slush pile or get picked up some other way?

I went on that slush pile! But bdb don't use the term slush, they call it "treasure chest" which is really nice!

Are you a pantser/outliner?

More of a pantser actually! This horrifies people. Including all of bdb.

How much editing was involved with your Black Dog editor?

A lot! So much in fact I had to blog a dedication to Melissa here:

http://shirleymarr.net/news/2010/10/11/interview-with-editor-melissa-keil-from-publisher-black-dog-books/

If you're working on something new, can you tell us a little about it?

Yes! I am working on something new. It's not a sequel, I won't rule out calling it a prequel, but it'll be in the same universe. Maybe you might meet some "old friends" from Fury. But they might have changed (in a weird TV-show-Heroes way). Good guys might be more like bad guys and vice versa.

A Rejection Virgin and Slush Pile Success Story!

Fury

Let me tell you my story.
Not just the facts I know you want to hear.
If I’m going to tell you my story,
I’m telling it my way.

Strap yourself in...

Eliza Boans has everything.
A big house.
A great education.
A bright future.

So why is she sitting in a police station confessing to murder?

Fury is available in Australia through Black Dog Books right now. Go get it!

More tales from the slush pile

After that depressing post about the blahness of the slush pile, and how the editors don't really NEED to find your masterpiece in it but they'd really like to if only it was easier to wade through the muck to find it....well after THAT post I want you to eavesdrop with me for a moment.

On the other side of the room, with my back to the editors, I am work work working away on something else. I can't remember. It was either a post for the blackdogbytes blog or line editing a nearly finished book or reading another and trying to come up with poetic and haunting titles for it...it was one of those. While I had my back turned, the two editors were bracing themselves to attack the slush filled email together.

They started with my "Under Consideration" folder.

A couple of things happened. If you say in your cover letter that you are published, they are going to Google you. They might even check Nielsen to see how many copies you have sold (so don't lie!). If they think your work sounds remotely interesting, they're also going to Google you. If they think your work means surely you must be a crackpot, then that will make for the funnest Google ever.

There were giggles behind me. And then I realised it was because, like me, they liked a story. It was cute, they could see it had something, a spark. One particular story had a cast of international characters and that is something ELSE Black Dog are trying to do, represent a real Australia, which are not all white people.

So they liked it and set it aside. Then there was another one (one I loved) with totally attitude filled illustrations that they printed out to make sure to show the publisher.

And there was another from the physical slush that they liked too.

So there's all this stuff HAPPENING. Books are ACTUALLY under consideration, not just sitting in an inbox waiting to be read.

But you'll never know about all this stuff that's happening. They might discuss your book, talk about how they could market it, where it would fit in the marketplace, which types of shops would carry it.

And you might be at home getting annoyed at how fricking long it takes for them to finally reject you.

In the end, these books might not get published by bdb, lord knows the stats aren't looking good, but you never know.

Stuff is happening. The editors are talking. And it might be about you.

The Slush Pile and Meh

Gotta tell ya, the slush pile was a different experience to what I was expecting.

If you don't know what a slush pile is, read briefly about it here. If you're hoping I'm going to mock some of the more attrocious submissions from the Black Dog Books treasure chest, you'll be disappointed because I don't want to do that. But you can find someone who does here (though they're not from the BDB slush).

I was looking forward to the slush pile! Delving in, finding something amazing, or even learning from the shockingly appalling.

But mostly what I found wasn't terrible, but it wasn 't amazing either. And it has to be amazing to be published. They have to be able to see who they could sell it to, and how they could market it to booksellers.

I probably found more that I put in the "Under Consideration" pile than one of the editors would, because I was hoping to find gems and give everything the benefit of the doubt, whereas the editors know they have X amount of spots on their list for new works and it's gotta be amazing if it's going to be considered.

A little bit of background about BDB. Black Dog Books - like all publishers - are busy. They have authors that they work with a lot and if they want a book on a particular topic they can go and ask one of those authors if they could write something.

Similarly, they have a stable of authors who write successful books, so they keep publishing more by those authors.

They like fresh new writers and ideas - absolutely they do - but they don't need them.

So when looking through the slush (which is all done in their own time, and considering they work overtime anyway, I now, when I have my writers hat on, will cut editors way more slack when they take awhile to get back to a submission) though they dream of finding that next big amazing book, they don't need it. And often it's just not in there.

That said, my pal Shirley Marr's first book Fury was one of the FOUR BOOKS EVER found in Black Dog's slush that they have published.

A lot of the slush doesn't meet their needs.

WHAT THEY WANT

Black Dog Books are currently looking for longer works, so junior fiction and YA novels. Junior fiction they prefer series, otherwise stand-alones can get lost in the overwhelming number of junior fiction titles out there. They're moving away from really thin junior fiction books, and they're really not into rhyming picture books. The picture book market isn't amazing at the moment anyway.

Most of the submissions in the physical slush, are for picture books. So they had a pretty slim chance of making it through. I found several 2000 word picture books (if you don't know, picture books are generally 500 words or less) and many lacked illustration advice so I couldn't really picture what their stories were about.

Most of the submissions (that I got to) in the email slush, were junior fiction and YA. I found a couple of YA that sounded interesting, but didn't really fit with the type of YA Black Dog are publishing at the moment, which are a bit darker, edgy, serious books. About murder (Shirley Marr - Fury) a car accident in which one of the characters dies (Karen Tayleur - Six) and the danger of taking dares too far (Sue Lawson - Dare You). They have more great dark serious stuff lined up for next year (I know because I read them).

Not only do you have to write something amazing, dear writers, but you have to write something amazing that complements the other amazing books they publish.

It's a difficult business, is it not?

That was all a little depressing, wasn't it. But fear not! Today I sat in on a meeting in which a debut author was offered a book deal! She was calm and collected and in control in the meeting but if the minute she was out of sight she didn't do a happy dance, I will be sorely disappointed. I expect she grinned all day.

Tell you about it later.

Sairz

Victorian Premier's Reading Challenge Reception

On the one morning I was running late and literally threw on anything to wear, I received a wonderful surprise as part of my placement with Black Dog Books this week, and scored an invitation to the Victorian Premier's Reading Challenge Reception at the National Gallery with Publicity guru Jess, in which there were primary and high school kids, their teachers and parents there to receive awards from the Premier himself, John Brumby. And there was media there, oh yes. The media were representin' too.

Some of the kids were too adorable and I must say I was a bit inappropriate when they went on stage and, though I clapped, really I just wanted to pat some of them on the head. Especially that little guy. But I didn't. I was a representative of Black Dog Books. I was all poise all decorum all the time, baby. Even if I WAS wearing odd socks.

Jess and I met several important people from the Education Department (whose names I have unfortunately...erm...forgotten) and even some of the Reading Challenge Ambassadors that were present. Jess and I joined the queue of kids and had a chat with and posters signed by these and other wonderful Australian childrens writers and illustrators.

I was especially excited to meet Michael Panckridge as I had JUST finished reading one of his manuscripts that morning. Weird coincidence if you asked me. And it was cool to meet Carole Wilkinson because, if you recall, I attended a fascinating, informative workshop with her daughter Lili recently. So I told her as such.

In the next post, I will talk to you all about my experience with the slush pile...from the OTHER SIDE.

Oh! And if you wander on over to Black Dog Books author Shirley Marr's blog

you will find us discussing what we like and dislike about being a Pantser vs Outliner when it comes to writing. And our warning to all kindergarten/primary schoolers to never accept the role of Mama Bear in a play. The role is cursed, we can both vouch for that.

Sairz

Infiltrating a Publishing House...mwahahaHAHA!

I have done it, readers. I'm IN.

I wrote on their blog yesterday, and then I updated their Facebook. I have their passwords. I have the POWER. I could have written ANYTHING! I could have written that the office smells like blue cheese! Or that the Publisher has power naps...in a coffin!

But I didn't. I am sheer professionalism. I also didn't, because the above are not true. Just so you know.

I have also infiltrated their MANUSCRIPTS, everybody. I have read that shiny new American YA with the fancy new cover and written a report with my opinion of it.

I have read the manuscript of an Australian YA they are considering purchasing and written a report with my opinions and RECOMMENDATIONS about what could be edited, and whether or not they should buy it. The commissioning editor (as in the editor commissioning this specific project) has not even read the entire thing yet.

I have nearly finished reading a draft of the first in a series of Junior Fiction books that they are publishing next year and have been line editing and making comments and writing questions in the margins, just as I do with my critique partners.

I will finish it on the train (much more productive than crawling in peak hour traffic on the freeway) and read the second one today - both of which I will write reports on. With OPINIONS. And RECOMMENDATIONS.

As one editor and the two publishers are off in Sydney at a Publishing conference, another editor sits behind me finding images and tinkering with the design of a non-fiction book, and filling up excess pages at the end of a book (for some reason - she doesn't even understand why - it was cheaper to make it with more pages than less) with awesomeness, I will be growing bolder, still.

Not only are my opinions (perhaps) going to sway how already under consideration and commissioned books will turn out, but today...today I will attack THE SLUSH PILE*.

MwahahahAHAHA indeed**.

Sairz

*If you are IN the slush pile at Black Dog Books, don't worry, nothing I read will be deleted before being seen by an editor, but I do have 2 fancy inboxes, 'Sarah - Consider' and 'Sarah - Reject' (I don't think those are the actual names, but that's what they mean).

**I am not a coffee drinker in my daily life but with all of this reading, I have had to indulge in a foamy cup or two and I don't think it's doing any favours to the stability of my mind.